Episode 008 – Repetetive Exercise Injuries and Marathon Training

Suburban Folk 0:00
Please make sure to listen to the disclaimer at the end of this episode. This is the Suburban Folk podcast episode eight, dealing with repetitive exercise injuries and marathon training with Andy and will from the DIY therapy podcast.

Unknown Speaker 0:20
We’re having some real talk some real folks. Hey, this is

Suburban Folk 0:24
Greg with the Suburban Folk podcast. My guest today are Andy and will from DIY therapy podcast How you guys doing?

Unknown Speaker 0:32
Good.

Unknown Speaker 0:32
Very good. Thank you for having us.

Suburban Folk 0:34
Oh, absolutely. Thanks for taking the time. I came across you guys some weeks back through social media. And at the same time that doing actually, it seems like our movie tastes and other stuff like that are about in sync, and I’m pretty sure even for kids and other stuff. We are all kind of. Yeah, we’re facing the same challenges. So when I listened to you guys, it sounded very familiar as far as Some of the day to day things that you have going on. And as luck would have it, the first episode I listened to was shin splints. And believe it or not, I was actually running when I was doing that, which was pretty interesting. And then the very next episode you guys did was on injuries from repetitive exercises. And when I completed my triathlon episode, folks that I knew started to say So when are you doing the triathlon? And I have a background in long distance running so they said Oh, are you going to try and PR and running and I’ve never met a challenge that I haven’t liked. So it made sense to me to get out ahead of the injuries that I’m inevitably going to face and, and bring you guys on to talk about some of those things and maybe what I can watch out for Plus, I like the fact that this DIY therapy because I’m the typical guy that there’s got to be a lot going on for me to go to the doctor or to a physical therapist or anything like that. So I can use some of the tips to pretend like everything’s okay and then go into a closet or something like that. And try some of the stuff that you guys suggest and pretend that nothing’s wrong at all. So so i think that’s that’s pretty cool concept as well. But before we got into some of that, what is the history for you guys as far as when did you decide to do a podcast? What were you listening to when you got interested in it? How’s it gone up to this point?

Unknown Speaker 2:21
How’s it gone? As far as podcasting is concerned, like when you started and it’s certainly a learning curve, because neither one of us are technically sound Yes, it’s both when it comes to computers and all that stuff. So that was there was a big learning curve on that. There’s a learning curve on especially for ours. We’re kind of a niche podcast, you know, there’s not a whole lot you know, are, you know, you people will like, you know, I have shin splints. I’m going to listen to this specific one episode. And so you know, trying to keep maintain an audience base is a little bit not tricky, but it’s, it’s

Unknown Speaker 3:00
Yeah, but I mean, like a little bit history behind us, we were both physical therapists, we actually decided to or we were working together and we just read just from a personality standpoint really hit it off. And from treatment philosophy standpoints, we really hit it off. I had started my own business with a low back pain product. And at that point in time, we’ll kind of came on and we just kind of discussed we’re kind of discussing how we could continue to kind of expand the business and since then, will has become a pretty much a full time partner with me in regards to trying to grow, you know, our reach and really try to just kind of help other individuals get through simple strains, pains, aches, like you were kind of alluding to the majority of individuals, you know, will have some type of ache or pain, but they won’t go to the doctor. And so how can they get through that whole process, whether it is a shin splint, whether it’s back pain, whether it’s neck pain, whatever is how can they get through that whole process more quickly? And so you know, we are we’re really ortho based musculoskeletal they iftf explain

Unknown Speaker 4:09
what ortho Yeah, so

Unknown Speaker 4:10
really owns joint joints. Low back neck.

Unknown Speaker 4:15
We’re both active also. Yeah. So when when you see ortho, it’s like people tend to think of just like the orthopedic Is this the same way with physical therapists they do we delineate between people who, who people will kind of explicitly specialize into like neurological, so like strokes and whatnot like that. And then an ortho is kind of like the rest almost it’s like a cabinet. Not quite a catch all, but it’s it kind of them. Yeah,

Unknown Speaker 4:38
yeah. In terms of me, we deal with people who are, you know, elderly have balance issues deconditioned all the way to that high level athlete. So, and also all the way into the pizza. So, children’s Yeah, yeah, I’m sorry. I tend to tech talk very technical, and we’ll kind of good about dumbing it down. So

Unknown Speaker 4:58
I mean, you’re done.

Unknown Speaker 4:59
I’m saying I’m done.

Suburban Folk 5:02
Well, actually, luckily for me, my wife happens to be a physician. So even the term pedes I think before knowing her Yeah, I’d be like, what is that? But pediatrics pediatrician, so I’m tracking with you, but but I hear you sometimes you get into the acronyms, and you assume people know what you’re talking about and may not necessarily be the case.

Unknown Speaker 5:20
Yeah, absolutely.

Suburban Folk 5:23
So the podcast is an extension of what you guys are doing as far as certain products that are offering and I even noticed, for example, with I think it was after the marathon episode that you had some recommendations on, like the knee bands and things like that. So So that’s sort of part of the package of

Unknown Speaker 5:41
part of it. We’ll start off more as just like an educational because we’re, we’re big on education.

Unknown Speaker 5:47
Yeah. So so what you know, it kind of it kind of goes back to, there’s really kind of a change in how rehab specialists are starting to treat people. It used to be, you know, 510 years. 15 years ago that we were really about just fixing a problem. And so our philosophies both from and this is due to research experience. But our philosophies have really changed from, you know, hey, what is your diagnosis? What is specific Lee going on with your body to, you know, more or less? What can we do to help kind of take away some of those? Your attendance, some of those agitations in your daily routine? What role do you play in your pain kind of go into a deep dive in terms of, you know, kind of a self journey of of what it is that’s actually agitating those those issues and be more of a facilitator versus a fixer and that’s kind of the way that all rehab specialists are trending at this point. You know, there’s always kind of some trends that that go along with an industry but this is kind of where I think you’re going to see most rehab specialist move towards, we’d like to think that we’re kind of on the beginning edge of it. Whereas there are some facilities that really Look or rehab specialist that’s still looking at just fixing that underlying problem. But the truth is that there isn’t a lot of correlation to just a specific dysfunction and pain pain is much more complicated. And so we really try to help individuals understand what all the variables are that are going into that pain, whether it is something like shin splints, or whatnot. And then also, you know, the products as as you know, you kind of asked the products that we have kind of recommended moving forward are really more of an adjunct type of treatment option we want.

Unknown Speaker 7:35
Yeah, we wanted to find ones that are specifically we knew we’re good.

Unknown Speaker 7:38
Yeah. And we’ll help people and help push people along through that whole healing process. Because there isn’t a quick fix. You know, we’re kind of in this society where everybody wants to kind of line up take a pill and or about that last night or or just get, you know, have surgery or whatnot, you know, how do I get that quick fix and it’s not you know, it’s an indicative of the people who want that, you know, it’s not it’s Not because they’re bad people. It’s just that’s what, you know. We’re where we are. And

Unknown Speaker 8:05
yes, I literally mean, we’re all roughly probably in the, you know, early, late 30s, and stuff like that. So we all remember, we all all of us remember back when, if we wanted to watch a movie or even a show, you had to wait for it to come out on DVD or VHS or whatever. Now, literally, everything is dropped in your lap, and you have access to everything at all times. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 8:27
And unfortunately, that has bled over to every.

Unknown Speaker 8:30
I mean, it was always it was always bad. It was bad, but I feel like it’s getting not really worse. But it’s it’s taking up I feel Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 8:37
And I think the other thing is one of the big pushes for this podcast we’ve created is that we feel like there are so many options that people aren’t aware of that they that can really help them that can have a really large impact on their pain very quickly.

Unknown Speaker 8:53
It’s very simple and it’s it’s simple stuff. Yeah, I mean, I You don’t need to go and get like a 20 minute exercise routine. necessarily

Unknown Speaker 9:02
I still practice you know, working one on one face to face with patients and at the end of the day A lot of times people go well that was really simple I can’t believe all that all that work. And that’s really what we’re about a simple solutions to, you know, what some people think are complex problems, but really aren’t. I

Unknown Speaker 9:19
mean, someone is the it is a complex problem, but the solution isn’t necessarily that’s not rocket So no, that’s that’s kind of where we’re coming from. It’s like, it’s like, I have back pain. Well, let’s try this one thing. Yeah, yeah.

Suburban Folk 9:36
Yeah, and I think sticking with the knee band example that was something that I dealt with in the first marathon that I ran and prior to doing any research I probably would have gone with like the sleeve versus just the small band because i don’t know i thought a basketball players that you see that with where I’m at didn’t know anything about you as the patella and and work for me. So I know during my research for whatever activity It is, it is helpful to have somebody that’s doing it day to day to say, yeah, try this first at least, you know, you can wade through some of the bad options, whether it’s something that looks too good to be true. Or like you said, keep it simple and don’t don’t do something major when when there might be a quicker fix.

Unknown Speaker 10:17
Absolutely.

Suburban Folk 10:18
So, transitioning to the marathon part and will you talked about wasn’t running at all. It was the end of the ran. Okay. I’m sorry.

Unknown Speaker 10:27
refine the

Suburban Folk 10:29
so. So it sounds like the training plan was pretty quick then and

Unknown Speaker 10:36
training plan, I believe is a generous, yeah.

Unknown Speaker 10:41
Yeah. So I think a little background probably as needed here. Sure. So I am 36. Three years ago, I ran a marathon and not by choice, but by

Unknown Speaker 10:53
I feel like you had some say in the matter. Okay, so

Unknown Speaker 10:57
here’s how this went right. I am Bye bye. I have been fit my entire life. I’m no longer fit. I played soccer in college. And I would, I would say that I was actually a fairly decent soccer player but not because I had any skill but because I just was naturally very fit could run forever. And so, over the years after we’ve my wife and I had a couple kids, my son would not go back to sleep when he was about two and a half years old. And so I would actually wake up at three 334 o’clock and I’d run him in the stroller, I made the offhand comment of to my wife that you know, cash and I’m running so much I could practically run a marathon. Right and it goes back to my wife who is actually very fit and was about two weeks out from running her first marathon which some had it banned and issues bursitis in the hip, etc. And she had actually pull out and not not completed and it’s been one of her kind of life. dreams to do so. And she said, Well, you can’t run a marathon.

Unknown Speaker 12:06
And I said, What? Absolutely, I can run a marathon. And that’s where the problem started.

Suburban Folk 12:13
Right?

Unknown Speaker 12:14
Yeah. And so from there, she said, Well, okay, you could, but you don’t have the time to train for it. And then of course, I dig deeper. And I said, well, who needs to train for a marathon?

Unknown Speaker 12:23
I feel like that’s, that doesn’t necessarily digging deeper. It’s pulling the dirt over the top of

Unknown Speaker 12:27
Yeah. Loading the, your own gun right there. But so from there, you know, she said, Okay, well go ahead and do it. And I said, Are All Right, I shall. And she, we kind of establish these rules where like I said, I did. I was running at the time. But I wasn’t allowed to run any more than what I was already running. So I was running, maybe three, four times a week, maybe 30 to 45 minutes at a time, maximum of maybe six, seven miles, you know, per session. That was very irregular also. So typically it was about three or four miles and it was running out of time. And that’s what I continue to do all the way up until the marathon. I then proceeded to mock my wife even more by not tying my shoes during the marathon having a giant cup of coffee right before the mirror. I didn’t know you didn’t tie your shoes. Yeah, my shoes were never tied.

Suburban Folk 13:23
Wow.

Unknown Speaker 13:24
My shoes were never tied. My cousin actually came in from Oklahoma to run it with me. He had a whole bunch of friends that he brought with him too. And they all mock me the night before when we were loading up the carb loading the night before. And they didn’t realize that I hadn’t been that I hadn’t been training and they were all taking bets over and under on when I would crash. And then I proceeded to go out of the gates and within the first half marathon, the half the halfway point I was at 128. Yeah, I was at a ridiculous pace. And feeling terrible.

Unknown Speaker 14:05
Because what is that working for me at that point, but 13.1? Right. 13.1

Suburban Folk 14:08
That’s right.

Unknown Speaker 14:10
Yeah. So continued. continue down that path for a bit. And then the last seven miles, we’re

Unknown Speaker 14:19
we’re just not good in any regard. I mean, my bones were hurting. I could feel every every step. In fact, I remember getting to about the 23 mile point and my kids are out there with signs and everything. And they’re like, Yeah, good. And my wife’s like, it’s all downhill from here and I’m like, no downhills not good at this point because I can’t like all pills better because all the pounding going downhill. So anyways, I did end up finishing it about 345 which I was pleased with, but I could not move for the next month. legitimately. The next month, I had trouble going downstairs for a week. I actually didn’t even take the day off the next day and I couldn’t wear shoes the next day when I was in the clinic. It was it was I won the battle but I lost the war is what I always tell people

Suburban Folk 15:04
specifics around the training plan. So how many weeks or months were there when you’re doing sort of the off cycle runs that were probably not the distance that you wanted to be doing? Was that for two months, three months leading up to it? Or was there last time you just sort of had to get in which you could?

Unknown Speaker 15:21
Well, I was I was at that point running just consistently. So that was kind of the rule was I wasn’t going to increase any of my running. So I mean, I think we made the bed in early June and then the it was mid October when the marathon was so okay, but my training didn’t change at all. I you know, it wasn’t as if I was I would say the one thing I did do differently was towards the end, I started to increasing my pace significantly, but that that was about it.

Unknown Speaker 15:52
Yeah, that was about it. Would you recommend this to No, this is a terrible idea. Okay. Yeah. Every level.

Suburban Folk 15:58
Yeah, and I actually was very much the opposite for the first marathon. I did. I didn’t consult any marathon training schedules I just said, Okay, if I add an extra mile to my long run over the weekend that I’m going to hit 20 miles, something like six or seven weeks out from the marathon, and then I know I’ll be able to run it. So I basically was set to run 20 plus miles for a month and a half before I got into the marathon, which was not good. Luckily, the first time I ran a 20 miler, I thought I blew my knees out when I was done and, you know, getting showered and cleaned up it, I could barely feel them. You know, it was very creaky for quite a while so I had to pull back just from risking injury at that point. And then my marathon I was just beat up at that point. So I ran like a 355. For the first one. I was just wanting to be under four hours, but very much the other way and the other stupid thing I did, I pulled it off. So Kind of a nice talking point. I was playing in bands at the time. So I sent an email to the to the people running the race and said Hey, could my band play at the finish line? Wouldn’t it be Wouldn’t it be cool for me to use the finish and

Unknown Speaker 17:15
then jumping dance?

Suburban Folk 17:17
Yeah, exactly. And you know I thought they were gonna say no we don’t even know if you can finish a marathon why would allow the prime spot Not only that, not only did they say I could they actually did a feature article

Unknown Speaker 17:32
on paper.

Suburban Folk 17:35
And so my oh man I’m in now I am committed. So yeah, I took like 20 minutes to sort of stretch but then I played guitar for like an hour which you know, stiffened up.

Unknown Speaker 17:47
It was good for you.

Unknown Speaker 17:49
Yeah, I mean, smart life choices is always a good thing.

Suburban Folk 17:55
Yeah, exactly. So you live in learn, I guess, cool story, but similar. I was I was miserable for the next week and a half. I think I had to go play golf a couple days later. And if I kept walking, it was alright, but I had to stop or sit down. I was a mess. Yeah. So

Unknown Speaker 18:12
how many of you ran out great.

Suburban Folk 18:14
I actually only two marathons, about eight half marathons. So the half marathon I treat kind of like you’re saying for the marathon, I can pretty much run that whenever you even if I’m not in a regular training plan. But for the marathon itself, obviously needs a little bit more focus. And I’ve signed up for a running group at this point over the winter at for marathon. It’s in March. And the other thing I said to the last one I did is I was a 324. So I did much, much better. Oh, that was my second marathon. So I was like, oh, man, this is so dangerously close to Boston qualifying. You know, when you get into those those higher levels, so I was like, all right, if I’m going to do another one, might as well give it a shot. So I figure Maybe the the training group will be the thing that get me over the hump. And I just read that they’ve decreased the times by five minutes. So really? Yeah, so it would have been for my age group 310. Now it’s back down to 305. So we’ll see what happens. The training guy said, well, it’s not impossible, but you know, getting that that 20 minute, time reduction is going to take some work on your parts. Yeah,

Unknown Speaker 19:28
that’s right. So so you’re you now you you’ve changed your training patterns, I’m assuming, so that you’re not running those big long runs a month and a half out? Correct. So you, you kind of timed it better, I’m assuming, because that’s, that’s kind of a goal for most of those. If you look at and you can get some big as you know, you can get some basic training schedules out there, but the goal is to peak about that week and a half out or So prior to the marathon. So that would be the one thing that I think you probably changed.

Suburban Folk 19:59
Oh, for sure. Yeah. The tapering, you just have to trust that it’s going to happen because I think most people that do this type of exercise, you have a hard time switching your brain to say that you need to lay off and let your body recover. You know,

Unknown Speaker 20:13
most of us anybody who’s like into a thing is like that, especially runners are you tell them they can’t run and is like me, I’m not going to not do that. Well, we become a little

Unknown Speaker 20:23
obsessive. I think it’s the big thing. Yeah. And, and as you know, when we become when we’re training like that, it’s one of those things where it’s like, Okay, well, if I actually let off, am I going to lose something where the recovery is actually what you need? Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 20:40
Yeah, you become fit in rest as opposed the opposite way around.

Suburban Folk 20:45
Agreed, and actually, foreshadowing one of the things I really want to hit from your guy’s perspective is, what types of injuries can you continue to train through and what would be some of the signs to say, okay, something’s not getting better, whether it’s just The timeframe of a nagging injury that just doesn’t go away or severity of the pain, I’ll be very curious to get your guy’s perspective on what that looks like and what to be looking for so that you don’t do major damage when you’re when you’re in the middle of training. So I thought maybe if we would, let’s say literally from top to bottom for what the typical injuries are, I’m thinking the highest would be probably back pain, talking about in terms of run or for running. Okay. Yeah. So I

Unknown Speaker 21:32
mean, really, in terms of running I don’t think that pain we don’t get a ton of No. And partly because you know, when you really look at like runners, and the age brackets that are doing these running, most people have more of a in this age bracket are going to have more of a disc issue and when you’re running upright, that doesn’t really affect the desk too much. It’s almost better for it. Yeah. Now the one thing I would say is You know, there’s this this in terms of back pain, you know, the the one thing that people tend to do right after they run is they stretch out their hammies Okay, so they’re doing all this repetitive flexion or they’re sitting on the ground and they’re doing the runner stretch, etc.

Unknown Speaker 22:14
So in this case, flexion is basically bending over and like touching your toes. Yeah,

Unknown Speaker 22:18
and so inflection your is in your in your back. So when you are standing, or running for a long period of time that that disc will actually become very heated. And then when you go and bend over right afterwards, that you go from all this extension or bending backwards during the running to all the sudden for bending very quickly and for static periods. And with that disc really heated, you can actually open yourself up to some susceptibility to injury, right that in there,

Unknown Speaker 22:45
it’s like it’s like, you know, hitting a metal, you know, like, it’s fine, it’s fine, and then you try to bend it. Once you get to a certain point you can you can actually bend it, yeah. So

Unknown Speaker 22:52
if you’re gonna like So the one thing that I would actually tell that I tell a lot of runners that do have back pain, and I find that there are people who do a lot The hamstring stretch bending over those types of things. You don’t do it actually on your back. And it’s called a 9090 stretch, but you would, you would just lay on your back, you put your hands behind your knees, you get your hip to about 90 degrees, and then you kick your knee out straight and stretch your hamstrings in that way. And when you’re doing it that way, you’re actually isolating the hamstrings versus getting any forward bending in the spine, which is what you want to avoid when that disc is super heated like that. So and

Unknown Speaker 23:27
a lot of a lot of races I’ve noticed they’re actually having I mean, the therapist, their physical therapist will be there like,

Unknown Speaker 23:35
yeah, your marathon, you probably so

Unknown Speaker 23:36
yeah, they’ll and they’ll stretch you out. And you know, I wouldn’t necessarily have to stretch your calf because that you they can’t do a very good job of that but stretching your hamstrings having them lay down and stretch your hamstring for you. That would be a good alternative.

Unknown Speaker 23:48
Yeah, so that’s a big thing that we see from the calf. When I’m sorry, the the low back Yeah. Yeah. Real ruin down the body then the next stop is really the hips. And there you know, and I don’t know if you’ve ever experienced this, Greg but you know, hip bursitis hip arthritis hip. Well, some people in hip arthritis,

Unknown Speaker 24:13
some old people,

Unknown Speaker 24:15
but Hip, hip bursitis is the next big thing. And that’s really when there, there’s what’s called a Bursa sac that sits on the outside of the hip. And there’s several different structures that either can start to irritate that Bursa sac and or get it inflamed. And so most of the time, that’s going to be your IT band. For those who are runners out there. They’re very familiar with the IP ban it band rolls, IPT, band stretches, etc. The other big muscles that are attached to that area though, are actually your glute medius and then your piriformis muscle and those should probably be stretched out also

Unknown Speaker 24:58
in you might have better luck stretching those muscles in your your IT band Really?

Unknown Speaker 25:02
Yeah, actually the IT band, you’re really never going to be stretching, you’re going to be more or less stretching the muscle that’s attached to it, which is the TfL. But that’s another whole nother that’s a whole Yeah. But with that being said, there are, you know, you can do some roles and things like that. And there are some benefits from doing that, especially if you feel like you’re getting some relief from that. In regards to like, Okay, what are the signs and symptoms of, you know, greater true painter bursitis, this hip bursitis, this lateral hip pain all kind of put into one little bucket there. Outside pain, point tenderness, not being able to lay on that spot. You know, I think the big thing with people is really understanding how your body responds to different activities. So it’s one thing if, hey, you know, you start walking, or you start doing your job and you have a little bit of soreness but you kind of work that out and then you keep running. And then really what are you doing or what are you experiencing after that? Okay, so after a training session, you know, are you having hip pain? Does it come on? Does it? Does it last for 510 minutes, but then go away? Or is it something that’s lingering for 20 to 60 plus minutes, when we talk about repetitive stress syndromes, which again, is something that we see a lot, and runners, this is really more about how long do your symptoms last, if your symptoms are lasting less than 20 minutes, it’s usually not a major concern. Okay? If you’re waking up in pain, if you’re waking if you’re having pain that’s lasting that hour plus, then you know that you’ve probably done too much and you have to start to look to either alter your your training, giving yourself more rest in between and or in terms of the duration of your current training session, you need to start to actually, you know, less than that and then look to see, you know, again for the hip that we just talked about, look to see if what happens when you start to stretch some of those structures and how that affects the paint. Following it was the ice you and of course ice with any type of repetitive stress syndrome

Unknown Speaker 27:06
I think with hip bursitis as it is trickier to is because it’s so deep there’s it’s it’s so close to the bone that it’s it’s hard, you know, underneath all the muscles and stuff like that it’s kind of hard to get at with the eyes, but it’s never a bad thing to try. Yeah, absolutely.

Unknown Speaker 27:22
Go ahead. And as

Suburban Folk 27:23
far as the stretches are concerned, would this be before as well as after you get ready for a run for example, you know, I definitely subscribe to active stretching, which I think just really translates to start slow when you’re running and then also of course allow for some amount of cool down with these stretches be after that or even before you run or primarily afterwards.

Unknown Speaker 27:48
Uh, you know, I’ll tell you what, I played a division one soccer and I never stretch once before ever playing. And I had almost zero injuries. You know, the research doesn’t actually indicate that stretching Afterwards is reserved for is really going to have much of an impact. But in terms of, you know, getting that that blood flow to the tissue and in a warm up, you know, a much smaller dose of whatever run you’re going to be doing, taking a moment to relax five minutes in between that and then moving forward, there is some there is some research that supports those types of things. The big stretching that I would really make sure that you’re doing like people just have this this concept that they have to stretch following a following any type of we’ve been beating in in their schools for 40 years. Yeah, they have to, you know, and there isn’t a ton of research that indicates that even after directly after doing these things, that stretching is going to have much of an impact. It’s when you’re tight later, okay, providing a different input to the system to your brain to the tissue that allows that those muscles to relax. It’s a positive input that really allows that muscle to relax allows Nervous System or to relax. So it’s something that I, you know, a lot of times you can get more benefit from those stretches by breaking up that tightness that occurs after the run 60 minutes and out, you know, two hours later right in the morning those types of things so that you’re not creating, you know that, that those first couple steps after a long training that,

Unknown Speaker 29:20
especially in the morning, it’d be a good really good time to do it. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 29:23
Now, that does not mean that you know, you cannot stretch right afterwards. It also does not mean that you cannot stretch right before your run, those are all still appropriate, they’re not going to hurt you and, but but in regards to like what we really recommend it, okay, once you’ve tightened up, then get that input in there on a regular basis and try to find some consistent consistency with it. So you know, if you’re training for long runs, you should also be incorporating, you know, let’s say you run in the morning, you know, you should be incorporating a couple stretches, you know, at 11 o’clock in the afternoon or in the morning, then you know Three o’clock and then before you go to bed so that’s that becomes part of your training your training process if that makes sense.

Suburban Folk 30:07
I love that answer because I try to get out there and start running as quickly as I can. So you know, a mile and I’m still saying, am I doing this rather than getting to the point where I’m just thinking about it and thinking about it with the stretches because it’s almost like it’s too easy to just stop right then it’s like the treadmill that button is right there that I can it stop at any point versus, you know, if I run eight miles away from my house, I gotta get back somehow. So, no, I actually am very happy to hear you guys say that because a when I’m sitting at my desk after I’ve done a run, that gives you, you know, something else that you can be doing to help your training. And as well as just from a time management standpoint, when you’re doing your run. It’s the run. Yeah, marathon training

Unknown Speaker 30:51
stuff that that’s a lot of time consuming stuff.

Suburban Folk 30:54
Right for sure. continuing to work our way down hamstring and quads. I was would be next. I know, I’ve dealt with some hamstring issues here and there, that Luckily, I’ve been able to just work through and usually would loosen up while I was running. But what are some things to watch out for? around those areas?

Unknown Speaker 31:13
Yeah. So, I mean, I think kind of, first of all, when you’re talking about, you know, identifying what is good and what is bad, you know, from here on out, it kind of goes along that same pattern, right? You know, what do you feel like, not 20 minutes after your run, what do you feel like, obviously, you know, several hours An hour later, so you’re looking for those types of signs and symptoms of did you do too much. If you’re having sharp pains, you know, difficulty while actually running. You need to stop. Yeah. I mean, at the end of the day, there’s a difference between getting up being stiff, you know, going for that run and slowly loosen up after 510 minutes. Versus Hey, you know, I’m starting to actually experience like a sharp pain Maggie pain that isn’t going away. So anytime that you’re you’re, you know in for people who are runners you kind of have an idea, you know, okay, I’m a little achy Yeah, there’s a little bit of discomfort here, but I’ve experienced this before and, you know, it’ll work, it’ll work itself out after a great get going. I mean, but when you start experiencing something new, take a step back, walk for a bit, get back, you know, maybe walk for five minutes, start, start at a slower pace again, see if it returns. If it returns, then you’re probably done for the session, you know, and then just come back ice. Because who knows if there’s some point, you know, some kind of inflammatory response, you know, most likely there isn’t a structural damage, but it would be more of a tendinitis type of issue.

Unknown Speaker 32:50
You know, but And where would you feel a tendonitis issue for the hips for the hamstring.

Unknown Speaker 32:54
You’re going to feel it in two different places. You’re going to see it really up high right at the where basically your sit bones are

Unknown Speaker 33:01
Yeah, can you might you might confuse it with but you’re but you’re paying your butt

Unknown Speaker 33:04
yeah or right behind the knee and you know, there’s there’ll be more obvious obviously Yeah, there’s, you know the hamstring actually consists of three different muscles. So there’s several tendons on the inside and several tendon or an attendant on the outside. And so that’s when, you know, there could be pain on both inside or outside of the need. In other words like the medial or lateral that doesn’t help you know,

Unknown Speaker 33:28
the inside or out. So the medial is like the part where needs are touching your inside of your knees, and then the laterals the outside.

Unknown Speaker 33:37
Yeah. So it could be anywhere through those areas. But then, you know, what I usually tell people is, most hamstring injuries really aren’t truly hamstring injuries. Which people kind of look at me like I’ve got three heads when I say that. Most cross chronic hamstring injuries are more of a sciatic nerve irritation. So there are some nerve glides that you can obviously do some hamstring stretches. But then there are also some nerve glides that you can do that can actually free up the sciatic nerve that runs along that whole same track. And those glides actually will have

Unknown Speaker 34:14
really actually look like a hamster they look

Unknown Speaker 34:16
like a hamstring stretch with just a little bit of deviation to it. And we can certainly send you a pic of those if you needed to post that on on your on any of your social media stuff for this. But those can be very effective for most of the time the hamstring injuries, you know, unless there’s like a significant amount of bruising or all the sudden swelling that occurs it a lot of times is either going to be that tendinitis or the sciatic nerve irritation. So that’s always something to be

Unknown Speaker 34:47
Yeah, and aside igner will be the way to tell you the two apart because the tendonitis will be point it’ll be it’ll be either either those two spots, it’ll be in your butt or will be done by your knee the Sadek nerve issue can be

Unknown Speaker 35:00
Lot of times it’s more than muscle though. Yeah, yeah. So differentiating those two things can be challenging. But the good news is you’re not going to hurt either one by treating both Yes. And they’re both very similar. So it’s just important to put the little, the little tweak in with the hamstring or with the sciatic nerve stretch. As far as the quadricep. Most people are going to have pain. Really more, more or less right above the kneecap.

Unknown Speaker 35:27
But right under the Iranian countdown,

Unknown Speaker 35:28
yeah, well for the patella tendinitis, yeah. There’s quadricep tendonitis, and then there’s patella tendinitis and, and really the difference between those two things. One is above or below the kneecap. Those are the really the, what I found is that the patellar tendonitis is more painful than the quadriceps.

Unknown Speaker 35:49
Yeah, I’ve had that patellar tendonitis, and it’s I’ve never is more common.

Unknown Speaker 35:53
Yeah. And it’s just the way that the mechanics of the way the work because How the pulling a function of everything. Yeah, yes. So there’s a lot of compression that’s placed on that into your knee during the repetitive jogging and running, especially when you start to get up going up into hills and things of that nature. But ice gentle hand urges, gentle quad stretches for that, that usually isn’t nearly as much of a nerve issue as the hamstring is so that’s gonna that’s going to be more musculoskeletal. Or that that those tendonitis, nice isotypes works really good for that service, because it’s right there. Yeah. But again, same rules apply, you know, how are you feeling 20 minutes after your session, you know, in a lot of times, I will say this that if you are having some of these tendinitis type issues that you know, kind of going back on what I said earlier, a little bit of stretching it before probably is beneficial to so that you don’t irritate it right away.

Unknown Speaker 36:56
I mean, like the active stretching is kind of like what you’re talking about. is not is The I think the best way to do it to kind of get some blood flow in the area. Hmm,

Unknown Speaker 37:05
yeah, absolutely. So that that kind of covers the quad hamstrings. I guess the next section would be probably just general knee pain. Right? Right. This is a little bit more tricky hat is way tricky. And just because they’re, you know, I mean, it’d be 90 different things. Yeah, it really could be all of those things. This is going to be something where you probably need a little bit more rest. You know, typically when you’re talking about actual knee pain, joint pain, it’s going to feel deeper.

Unknown Speaker 37:39
Yeah, it’ll be inside the joint. Everything else will be the way I was going to describe it is like it Can you touch it? Like if it’s if it’s if it’s muscular, you can touch it, you can kind of manipulate the pain, where if it’s pain that is like this kind of pain, you can’t access it. You can’t get to it.

Unknown Speaker 37:57
Yeah, this would be Something where a lot of ice a lot of rest and watch the repet like watch when you’re training for something like this Your or when you’re training to try to avoid pain with this, you want to train on flatter surfaces, that pounding of going down a hill or that more little bit more joint pressure that you get in the joint going up a hill is going to be more problematic and you might be able to differentiate, you know, whether or not it’s more you know, patella tendinitis, quad, you know, quad tendinitis versus kind of a deep pain by D also have pain, you know, twisting, you know, do you have more pain when you are doing more of a hilly type of terrain versus a flatter surface, you know, those are types of things that sometimes sometimes can differentiate whether or not it is something that’s a little bit more structurally inside that’s irritated. But this is the same thing. It’s more of a irritation, you know, most likely just a general Running isn’t going all of a sudden, you know, quote unquote, and I don’t mean to use bad terminology here, but tear up your knee, it’s just that the tissue inside has had enough and it’s basically saying, hey, knock it off. And so that’s where the rest comes in, which is challenging for a runner, a runner. And so

Unknown Speaker 39:20
this and going back to your, your original knee brace, the knee sleeve, you’re looking at a nice lead with this kind of injuries, not necessarily a bad idea, because it’ll help keep some of the swelling out.

Unknown Speaker 39:30
Yeah. And so, you know, part of the the, the thing that is challenging for individuals is when they do have to start to pull back on some of their, their exercises or their routine, their training regimen, is that, you know, the question is, okay, well, now I’m feeling a little bit better. How do I then progress that or how do I get back into my training? Let’s say you took two weeks off, well, most people want to then jump right back to where they were from that that stopping point where It doesn’t mean that you have to start from the beginning. But you need to start systematically starting to load the joint, get it tolerant and resilient to those types of strains again, and then slowly expand off of that. So, you know, not to say that it can set you back months and months, but it may set you back several weeks. And that’s important that when you’re when you’re training for these types of things, that this may be just where you’re at from a, you know, from a physicality standpoint, that you’ve got to just kind of be realistic with yourself, you know, and say, Okay, well, you know, my body’s telling me this, I can’t push through this otherwise, it’s going to continue to get irritated, you know,

Suburban Folk 40:38
and I imagine that something else to make sure people do get learn from my mistakes is the shoes that you wear probably would impact no pun intended. How how well your needs to for example, when I did that first marathon where I just felt really bad and and and had needed issues. I had like a pair of off the rack shoes I think I’ve worn through the entire training which is you the shoes are gone. They’re they’re worn out at that point. Versus the next time I bought a couple different pairs I would rotate them they were much better quality. Do you guys subscribe to the same things first make sure you don’t cheap out on the equipment.

Unknown Speaker 41:20
Yeah, the first thing I would say is tie your shoes.

Unknown Speaker 41:24
Right I agree. I don’t I feel

Unknown Speaker 41:25
like we don’t need to tell people that but I mean, we had to tell you and you’re educated. You still wouldn’t do it. So actually,

Unknown Speaker 41:33
I still run I’m wearing my running shoes right now that are never ever tied. Anyways, yeah, I got I gotta test this. So So yeah, you know, there. There are certain challenges when we say okay, get a quality running shoe because everybody’s feet are different. So different. Right? But you’re absolutely correct. When you find the right fit for your shoe. You should be you should be buying a higher quality shoe that has, you know, like, I remember a few years ago actually went like I was running so much that I was like, Okay, well, I’m buying so many different shoes and we had our second child and I was like, well, geez, I’m just, you know what, I’m just going cheap with this and I’m buying, you know, a $40 shoe off the, that nobody wants off the, you know, in these discount stores. And I could tell the difference right off the bat, you know, they’re usually as much of a cushion. There wasn’t as good of an arch support. It actually wasn’t flexing in the right, right places. So I mean, when you’re looking at shoes, you know, there are a couple shoe stores that we actually have in town here that will actually let you go run around the block. You know, I would look to see if you can try us

Unknown Speaker 42:47
yeah, most most, most cities will have that where there’s a natural dedicated running store. We still let you go up for a run in the shoes.

Unknown Speaker 42:56
But absolutely from a I mean to get into specific record Knowing that everybody’s got different shape feet, it’s really hard for us to now I guess to kind of pinpoint that but it is one of those things that the higher quality shoe Trent change changing your shoes out. Yes, absolutely recommend a

Unknown Speaker 43:18
good one with the arch support. That’s a that’s an under underrated one.

Unknown Speaker 43:23
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

Unknown Speaker 43:27
Yeah, but I don’t know if I have a ton more to comment on that just secondary to the fact that everybody’s so stinking different.

Suburban Folk 43:33
Sure. Well, and and changing them out. Yes. Very my experience, that’s a good one.

Unknown Speaker 43:40
If you don’t have it, like I have a Garmin watch it you can plug in when you get new equipment, and it’ll it’ll log the miles that equipment gets, you know, and then I’ll tell you some changes shoes and that’s kind of nice to sometimes, because when I don’t run long distances, I would always just run you know, like three, four months. Five miles. And so I run into when I did run in more of a thinner like not necessarily all a minimalist, but it was no good Christian in my shoes because it’s just if that’s the way I I worked my way down to and I don’t suggest going on doing that. But you know, I feel like I have more control if that makes any sort of sense. And it was good with that one it’s hard to tell when those shoes specifically are down, you know, because with the krisher shoes and kind of look at the outside and Oh, there it looks like a marshmallow has been squished. So it’s time to

Suburban Folk 44:39
change those up to move on. Right definitely have no no background with the minimalist shoes. I know people that get down to that point. do like them and like I said definitely not for these types of long distances that we’re running with. But I wouldn’t I would not venture any recommendation for those

Unknown Speaker 44:54
when I was running a race race. It was a mid day during June. So is it five o’clock in the afternoon was awful. Five o’clock in the afternoon in June, it was hotter than hell. It was a road race and it was so hot that the tar was bubbling. There was a guy who was a 65 year old man who was wearing nothing but shorts. And when I say nothing but shorts, I mean no shirt, no shoes, nothing. And he was just, he was running on that tar. And wow, it’s like, what’s wrong with you?

Unknown Speaker 45:30
Know, but that doesn’t mean that we actually know a guy who wrote barefoot run.

Unknown Speaker 45:34
Yeah, and He’s nuts. Yeah, he is. He’s absolutely nuts.

Unknown Speaker 45:36
Yeah, it is crazy.

Suburban Folk 45:39
Yeah, you even for me on the beach doing that I maybe two miles

Unknown Speaker 45:44
is full stop it, though, is just hard. I know.

Suburban Folk 45:46
So continuing down and I’ll be a little selfish with the next couple because these the injuries that tend to nag me the most. And also, like I mentioned, you guys had just done an episode on shin splints. So for anybody that interested in and listen to your guys’s episodes, I’ve definitely encouraged to go take a listen to that and maybe we can come back to it knock on wood I have not really ever had any shin splints issues. I’ve know plenty of people that have. But for me in the I will describe the pain in my heel. I assume that’s where like the Achilles would attach to the very bottom of your foot. But I have definitely had in the past really sharp pains there that would go away after a mile or two, just getting through it. And then throughout the day, similar to what you guys are describing with other injuries, just sharp pain when you first get up

Unknown Speaker 46:38
worse in the morning.

Suburban Folk 46:40
Yeah, when you first would get up Yep, I would feel it when I’m in before I got a chance to start moving and then just for the long periods sitting at my desk when I’d first get up to you know, go to the bathroom or something like that. We

Unknown Speaker 46:51
can tell you what that is.

Unknown Speaker 46:53
Yeah, okay. So there’s, I mean, honestly, it’s it’s twofold. There’s playing around is where it attaches to the base of the or the bottom of the heel. And then there’s also the Achilles, which is at the base of the heel. And those two attachment points are actually very, very closely oriented to one another. And typically what happens is that whole area gets inflamed. So like when you’re talking about hurting directly in the morning, a lot of times what happens is when we’re sleeping at night, most people sleep with their toes pointed, so Well

Unknown Speaker 47:25
yes, do it, then we’re short. Yeah, because if you imagine where you’re they’re sleeping on your back or your sides, where you’re weird like me and sleeping or comic, no matter how you do it, generally your foot, your foot falls down,

Unknown Speaker 47:37
right, so you’re pointing them down, so that just that naturally shortens all that Yeah, shoo in there. And so then when we go through and initially take a step or move the ankle, early in the morning, we have an initial strain or stress on that tissue which causes you to have pain. Same thing with when you’re static during the day at your desk, cetera those things are typically put into a little bit more of a shortened position or they’re just not moved enough. And so then you again have that initial pain that you experience and then of course when you are beginning you’re running What are you doing you’re pounding right on that area. So you know what ends up happening is it is just it does turn into a repetitive stress syndrome. They are they are challenging because I mean when we think about it, right, I mean, you can’t work can you not use your feet? Yeah, you’re unless you’re you start to go non weight bearing and get on crutches, which is not a good that’s not a good choice. You know, so you’re constantly kind of, you know, having that repetitive strain through that tissue. So, right away, you know, what I what I tell people you have to get on a schedule with icing, okay? Absolutely. Get it on, get on a schedule with it.

Unknown Speaker 48:44
If your work you can, you know, Chuck some ice and you know, in the freezer at work, if you can, and then midday, you know, ice it throughout the day.

Unknown Speaker 48:52
Yeah. And then you can do a series of different like calf stretches where, you know, a lot of people don’t realize that there’s two sets of muscles With the catheter is a gastro, Kimi gratia that

Unknown Speaker 49:02
you get guys our name, yes, thank you solia and

Unknown Speaker 49:05
then the solace. So you know, you can do like what we would consider like a stair stretch, which would be to just let the heels hang off the edge of the stair, and you can do that with a nice straight and the knees bent, that’s going to stretch those two different muscle when you’re doing it with the knees bent, which is usually where that’s either where the problem is, yeah, it’s usually in the soleus muscle, you’re going to feel a lower a very much lower and almost deeper stretch. And that will help that kind of lower portion of the muscle to stretch out so it’s not creating as much strain on the Achilles and then if you really try to get everything to relax back, when you’re on those stairs, you can actually feel that you get a stretch just kind of on the underside of your foot right where that plantar fasciitis and so that would be just a very easy stretch that you can do. There’s certainly a lot of other stretches where you can do a calf stretch against the wall with the nice strip that knee Yeah, there’s there are 10 billion calf stretches. Yeah, but then the other thing that I recommend for most people is you really in the morning before you even put your foot down, get a belt wrapped around your your toes and get a good stretch with a nice straight and the knee bent on that calf again, so that you can stretch that tissue out so that that first initial kind of motion and weight bearing that you have during the morning isn’t a negative impact on the tissue. So you’re essentially not starting the whole inflammatory response off right away. And so if you can avoid that, then that can kind of set your day up for a little bit better success. And then the following. The last thing is really that that and you’ve probably seen this before being a runner, the tennis ball stretch again, doing that kind of rolling the tennis ball, 3045 seconds, bottom of your foot. You can do that for

Suburban Folk 50:52
frozen water

Unknown Speaker 50:54
bottle to rose water bottle but doing that directly in the morning again so that that tissue is lengthen before You initially put that weight down and go from this, you know, eight hours of really shortened position of the tissue to all of a sudden stretching it out with, you know, going through all the range of motions with all your body weight on it. Yeah. So avoiding those initial impacts and avoiding those moments where you you have pain is really the big thing that kind of goes back to like we offer, we offer consultations, wellness consultations, where we, we look and we chat with people about Okay, specifically unique to you, when are you having those symptoms and then we really problem solve, okay, well, how can we avoid those and modify that because if you can avoid some of those pain, that’s really the quickest way to get some of that irritation down. Okay, you know, I mean, it’s, it’s kind of sound stupid and Well, I

Unknown Speaker 51:44
mean, the funny part is, it’s like it’s, it has to be outside of yourself. Like sometimes you’re just doing like your normal routine like you’re you’re doing you know, the characters will have Yeah, and you just it’s hard to hard to pay attention to you kind of need somebody to who’s drivability. Yeah, and like kind of walking Through, well, what is this? And then we also kind of know where the little triggers are like, is it worse in the morning, you know, kind of things.

Unknown Speaker 52:08
But so that’s how we would take someone through that. So and then eventually, you can do a little bit of strengthening for some of the intrinsic muscles in the foot, or intrinsic muscles, the small little itty bitty muscles in between all the, you know,

Unknown Speaker 52:23
in Yeah,

Unknown Speaker 52:23
yeah, all the all the bones of the foot. And then finally working on some calf strengthening and things like that, but that’s after, you know, the pain has been reduced. And you can kind of move on with that. But I know that’s kind of an overview of that. Questions with that right.

Suburban Folk 52:38
Now, that’s really helpful. I mean, a stretching before I get up, it’s certainly something that I can add to my regimen.

Unknown Speaker 52:44
You have to wake up early enough to do it,

Unknown Speaker 52:46
or to be up

Suburban Folk 52:49
well, I guess as long as I have that habit right next to the bed, I should be good. And actually luckily for me, I work from home so icing, the foot actually will be less awkward. Then being in an office space, so employing those couple things, I think will definitely help. And then I just for myself, like I said, watch it really close as far as when I’m running and if it is noticeably still in pain, you know, after a mile or two, then you know, maybe I’ll seek more counsel. But

Unknown Speaker 53:23
you know, and again, if it’s about noticing more and paying after a mile or two, walk for five minutes, give it a break, and then jump back into it and see if the pain still is there. If then it’s still there, then then you’ve got either take a break for the day, take a break for a couple days or start seeking more counsel.

Suburban Folk 53:40
Yeah, maybe that is a good transition over to triathlons. Like I mentioned, I had had an episode and I’ve always I triathlons just as a new challenge. And also, as you’re getting older, you know, everybody points to run into be one of the worst things for your joints and, you know, eventually your body will break down so hey, sweet Main should be something that can be less of an issue there as well as biking. Two questions Do you guys see the similar type of injuries or other injuries to look out for when people are doing swimming and biking? And then maybe even taking that back to running? Is that an alternative for especially those foot injuries? We’re talking about? Can you move over to the bike for some amount of time and presumably wouldn’t irritate your foot, but you’re still getting some amount of exercise?

Unknown Speaker 54:29
Yeah, I mean, I think right away just being off of the foot.

Unknown Speaker 54:33
Yeah, I think with when you’re dealing with people who are like real hardcore triathletes, and training for triathlons. I think you actually find that they don’t have as many aches and pains because there is that cross training. It’s just you know, you’re not training.

Unknown Speaker 54:50
Yeah, they’re following their ABC.

Unknown Speaker 54:51
Always be cross training. Yeah, you’re you’re, you’re not doing the same repetitive stress. You’re still getting you know that cardio in different ways and you’re still training every maybe you know 234 or five, six times a week, whatever it is, but you’re not creating that repetitive strain on the same tissue. So, you know, if you are a runner and you’re trying not to you know, you’re having leg pain, foot pain, etc.

Unknown Speaker 55:20
You know, start trying to throw in a day on the recumbent bicycle or if you do actually have a road bike go out and do that road bike or if he can swim when swim. Yeah, but obviously might be a little bit make it worse because the numbing metaphors but it may not help it just because you your your foots always in that pointed position so

Unknown Speaker 55:41
we’ll agree to disagree on that.

Unknown Speaker 55:44
Nothing is going to hurt it I’m just saying.

Unknown Speaker 55:47
Well agreement.

Unknown Speaker 55:49
Um,

Unknown Speaker 55:50
but yeah, what I mean what I would say is obviously if you’re if like my dad swims every single day, he has last 35 years. He has not had an issue in his Shoulders or anything for that would that that would be the problem area would be the shoulders. Yes. So, I mean, anytime that you do the same thing, and that’s surprising, by the way. Yeah, it’s it is unique to him that anytime that you’re doing the same thing over and over and over again, you run the risk of whatever joint you’re actually working or putting the more most strain or stress through, you’re running the risk of, you know, injuring that. For bike training, the big thing is probably low back. Yeah, especially when you first get on it because you’re much more in that flex position. So that’s something that we see with people who I’ve seen over the years, many people who don’t do the road bike, you know, during the winter and then come in and all of a sudden, in the spring when they start doing their weekly or weekend type of writing, that all sudden they have these low back pain symptoms, you know, sciatica, all that kind of fun stuff. And you know, then we start talking about their back positioning and so on and so forth. Because you’re stuck in that for that position, so, but But to answer your question, you know, triathletes in general tend to not when they are really cross train tend to not have as many issues. It’s when they get kind of pigeon holed into whatever, whether it’s biking, swimming, yeah, if they’re going to do that repetitive, yeah, then it’s going to overstrain the shoulders in terms of swimming, and it’s going to overstrain the back and the hips when biking and then really the lower legs when running too much.

Suburban Folk 57:28
That’s good to hear. So at least that’ll validate my plan of I’m going to see what I can do for the for the Boston time. If I don’t make it then I probably will switch somewhat permanently to cross training method but I know this extra five minutes that they took off to is it’s making me very sad at the moment. So so that is definitely the plan for all the reasons you guys just mentioned as far as the cross training is concerned, hopefully I’ll keep me out there longer and I’m not just you know, on the couch with Injuries over and over again from doing one repetitive thing. I one other question that I just thought of as far as equipment is concerned, whenever I’m at the races, it seems like more and more people have the tape on either their arms or on their, I think mostly on their quads or hamstrings. I’ve never really looked into the purpose of that. What it what is the intent of one question?

Unknown Speaker 58:22
Okay, so

Unknown Speaker 58:26
the question is, how deep Do you want to dive with this?

Unknown Speaker 58:30
Dirty answer, and then there’s a

Unknown Speaker 58:32
well, so the intent behind it, the intent is actually to so there’s several different layers of skin muscle, etc. Right? The intent is actually to theoretically is theoretically Yes, let’s let’s put that the the theory is, is that you’re moving that superficial epidermis layer, your skin, your skin, over the muscular layer, and then those things Slide and glide over. Yeah. So if you were,

Unknown Speaker 59:02
if you were to feel your the top of your hand and you can move your skin around, right, that’s what you want, you know where all the layers moving separated from each other. This theoretically, facilitates that better. Yeah, and creates

Unknown Speaker 59:17
more range of motion, decrease tone in the muscles, etc. The other major theory behind it is if you look at any kind of muscle or any kind of drawing, right, and these are actually fairly accurate, you can see that there are muscle fibers that when you get into the details of the drawings or pictures, there are there are certain directions that each muscle fibers going to go. If you get like a good tape a good pull along, like parallel with a muscle, okay? Especially that that tape is is kind of stretchy, then the idea is that that’s actually going to facilitate more contraction in that area. And then on the opposite of that, if you’re looking to say you’ve got a muscle that’s that’s firing too much on the opposite side of that is if you put them perpendicular to those muscle fibers and that will actually inhibit the muscle subtopic from contracting as much. Yes. See how he just fills in all the

Suburban Folk 1:00:13
thumbs it down very quickly for me, that’s perfect.

Unknown Speaker 1:00:16
And so so, so there, there’s more validity to the second part of that. Okay. The inhibit, specifically inhibiting muscles, the facilitating of muscles is is somewhat sketchy, isn’t it? Yeah. If the research isn’t quite out on

Unknown Speaker 1:00:34
the note, if that’s what you’re going to see mostly at the races is people that are taking themselves to

Unknown Speaker 1:00:41
facilitate the muscle to work better. Yeah. And but then when you actually look at the first theory behind kind of, you know, making that skin move over that lower, lower layer of tissue, that one really is pretty dicey that yet the research doesn’t hold up on that in the end people swear by it. And if that’s the case, go for it. Yeah, if there’s a placebo effect, meaning, you know, there is no actual physiological effect, it makes you feel better than it then it works. And yeah, it’s more psychosomatic, great, whatever. At the end of the day, we joke around all the time with our patients with ourselves, that we don’t care how you get better, whether it’s all on your head, whether it’s not in your head, whether it’s something physiologically that’s actually going on, as long as you are moving forward, unable to continue to put one foot in front of the other from a running standpoint, from a walking standpoint, whatever it is, if you’re actually moving forward within your symptoms, then it doesn’t matter. Okay. So you know, if you want to try it and see what happens go for Yeah, it’s definitely

Unknown Speaker 1:01:42
not gonna hurt you.

Unknown Speaker 1:01:44
Yeah, that’s a great point. It’s not gonna hurt you. It becomes if you’re a man, you have a lot of hair well, but it becomes

Unknown Speaker 1:01:52
it does become costly. If you’re not like that k pages, actually.

Unknown Speaker 1:01:55
Yeah, it is

Unknown Speaker 1:01:56
expensive. It’s not true. So if you are training a lot and doing a daily That that can become very expensive. But yeah, it’s not something it’s never might go to. I mean, it’s it’s kind of like if we’re if we’re working with patients on this type of thing, it is pretty much the last thing in the bag that I would maybe say, Oh, you know what, we’re not going anywhere. Let’s try this you know, and, and if that helps, then that helps. Yeah, you know, unless someone’s bringing it up.

Suburban Folk 1:02:19
Okay, good. Well, that’s something that I’ll probably keep to the side for myself and less ladies that I need some sort of a placebo effect when race day comes, but you don’t want to go and do anything to do different from race day versus any of your training so that become a consideration. Yeah,

Unknown Speaker 1:02:34
absolutely.

Suburban Folk 1:02:36
Well, that’s all the questions that I had is anything that came to mind from you guys standpoint that we didn’t cover?

Unknown Speaker 1:02:42
Gosh, I don’t know I think we rambled a lot.

Unknown Speaker 1:02:46
Oh, I’m sorry. I rambled a lot.

Unknown Speaker 1:02:47
Yeah, cuz you got it can can’t get good. Got it?

Unknown Speaker 1:02:53
No, no, I think the big thing is, is just listen to your body.

Unknown Speaker 1:02:58
Pay attention to the small things that You don’t think they’re causing the pain because generally the things that is causing the pain isn’t the thing. That’s right. That you know, is usually you’re causing the pain. And that pain happens afterwards. Yeah. And people, you know, people tend to not associate those two things. They don’t think of the thing that they’re doing immediately, like nothing I wasn’t doing anything was just

Unknown Speaker 1:03:17
sitting on the couch. Yeah, there’s actually research that indicates that pain can come on up to 14 days after an incident, which is really, really discouraging for people because most people want to have this cause effect relationship. And, you know, the analogy I always use is if you go outside and you know, stub your toe, on the, you know, on the on the cement, you know exactly what that problem was. But if it’s three hours earlier, you know, a day earlier that you actually injured yourself, are you ever going to make that connection? So really look into your past to really start to determine what the causes and then start to alter that and see how then you can and do that all at one time? Or I’m sorry, I’m just one thing at a time so that you can see how your body responds differently and You can kind of weed through some of that.

Unknown Speaker 1:04:01
Yeah. You don’t want you don’t want to. We’re also not. At least I am specifically. I don’t like giving out a lot of exercises at first, specifically, because if you give out five or six exercises in the person has pain, you don’t know what it was that caused it. Yeah, or better. Yeah. What was the hell do what was it one of them that didn’t and then we just do the one it or you know it? Is it? I don’t know.

Unknown Speaker 1:04:25
Yeah.

Suburban Folk 1:04:26
Yeah, like the same concept as an elimination diet. Right. Like do one thing. So you know, the thing that’s working? Yeah,

Unknown Speaker 1:04:31
absolutely. Yeah. And that’s, that’s really where we like it. We kind of mentioned earlier, we do do these wellness consultations, and they’re not face to face, they’re just over Skype and whatnot. And that’s really where we try to weed things out for people and kind of just kind of dissect their habitual patterns and where where those causes are, and that’s where sometimes you need that outside counsel to just, you know, kind of have that

Unknown Speaker 1:04:56
as the questions that you know, went me may not know to ask yourself,

Unknown Speaker 1:05:00
But no, I think just listen to your body is my biggest thing that I tell people all the time your body is telling you something, don’t try to just push through it just because you’re too tough or, you know what, most people who are coming to see us are world class athletes or in if they were at one point, they still aren’t now, no. So your body is your body is wearing down and you gotta pay attention to it. Otherwise, you’re gonna, you’re gonna make things worse. So

Suburban Folk 1:05:24
can you go ahead and give your social media information where people can check out your show and ways to contact you.

Unknown Speaker 1:05:31
But you can contact us at DIY therapy 206 at gmail, com, if you have your own things we you’d like us to cover. we’d be more than happy to talk about anything. We’re you can find our podcast at DIY therapy pretty much

Unknown Speaker 1:05:49
everywhere. I’ve Yeah, we’re on iTunes.

Unknown Speaker 1:05:53
There’s some things I can’t access because I don’t have a Google phone.

Unknown Speaker 1:05:57
So I don’t know what so I don’t know what but I know We’re on like stitcher and or not Stitcher, boron like, Cass box. I just, I know we’re pretty much anywhere that is on there. You can follow us at we have an Instagram account at DIY therapy 206 where, you know, I’ll put a little snippets of, of our podcasts and sometimes like for this sort of thing, like I’ll put up for the nerve glide. I was where your I’ll usually kind of use that more for our exercises. And then Twitter is is me just being a goofball. Really.

Unknown Speaker 1:06:31
Yeah. And then we have DIY therapy.net, which is our primary website where you can get all of our podcasts. We have news, if you want a wellness consultation, you can sign up for that. Yeah, we have. We’ve actually have three different self treatment books, one for chronic pain, one for neck pain, one for low back pain that you can purchase. We have our other products that are on there. And we also have all kinds of different treatment guides and treatment philosophies and YouTube videos on On our website also, so all kinds of different stuff that you can kind of access there.

Unknown Speaker 1:07:05
Yep.

Suburban Folk 1:07:07
Perfect. And I’ll be sure, of course to post some of the links on to the show description once we get this published, and hopefully folks got some information for their own exercise program. So thanks so much for doing

Unknown Speaker 1:07:18
this. Yeah, we really enjoyed it too. So

Suburban Folk 1:07:20
thank you. Great. Take care. If you enjoyed this episode, please be sure to give us a rating on Apple, Spotify, Stitcher, or wherever you get podcasts. If you’d like to be notified of future weekly shows, please hit the subscribe button. Thank you. Suburban Folk is now part of the pod all the time podcasting network, be sure to check out the other podcasts that are part of the group

This podcast is for educational purposes only. It is not designed to diagnose or treat. When beginning any exercise program it should be reviewed and discussed with your medical professional prior to beginning information on this podcast is not designed to replace medical treatment.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai